TO CANADA 5

DOMINGO: You know perhaps that there are many radio sta- tions in the hands of the rebels. Well, one of these plays the monarchist anthem, another the Fascist hymn and another the republican anthem. They have no common policy except to overthrow the democracy. . . .

The Church in Spain

DR. WARD: You say that the church is against the democmcy. Please explain this further.

A long and energetic dispute ensued among the members of the delega- tion, who disagreed among themselves as to just when the Spanish church began to be reactionary, after the Reformation or during the 19th cen- tury; they also disagreed on the relative amount of loyalty among the Catalan and Basque clergy. All at last agreed on certain basic points. which were expressed by the priest, Sarasola.

SARASOLA: The church in Spain in recent years showed its re- actionary character in several ways. First, it was openly and energetically on the side of the Primo di Rivera dictatorship in 1923. Then in 1931 when the Republic was established, not a single church dignitary was for it. During the present revolt the church helped the Fascists. Yet many Catholics are on the side of the People’s Front Government. This is true of the Catholics of the north, the Basque provinces. Also some prominent Cath- olics of Madrid, such as Ossorio Y Gallardo, one of the most prominent Catholic conservatives, who recently made a radio speech on behalf of the government. He said: "A Christian cannot be Fascist, for Christianity represents the liberation of the human spirit, while Fascism is the negation of liberty, the reign of violence, and this not in the service of the humble but to safe-

guard privilege. . . . A Christian cannot accept the doctrine of race—superiority, nor the policy of exterminating Jews and Com- munists. . . . " He also said: "A Catholic must obey and respect

the Church, but the Church must not be confounded with those degenerate priests who degrade God to the position of a belliger- ent, nor with religious orders which heap up riches, nor with priests who shoot from belfries and carry machine—guns into battle to the degradation of their holy office which bids they pray for the peace of everybody. . . . "

LARA: The Archbishop of Mondonedo was at the head of the rebel forces. Also when Segovia was attacked by government troops, the Fascist rebel chiefs conferred whether to continue fight- ing or return to their allegiance, and it was the vote of the Arch- bishop there which decided them to keep on fighting against the democracy. No Catholic in England or America can understand such things.